1DS II workflow (again)

[peegeenyc]

hey guys I've read the forum and see people saying they are not sure what Capture settings to use on the 1Ds II and the replies (moderator and contributors) seem confused and contrary. its driving me nuts as I just want to get on with a sound workflow in my files.

with my 1Ds II files I'm getting the salt and pepper look in shadow areas if I uses digital high res capture sharpen, so what do I do?? if I pull it back (opacity) to prevent this, I have to go so far (50% or less) that it seems pointless.

please just give some basic guidance, or a special setting for this camera. It is the top DSLR on the market now, and others will move in that resolution size in time. I'm sure you don't want to loose your top end customers, but we really need a clear, bullet proof workflow for 17Mp high res DSLR files.

[Bruce Fraser]

At this point, I have seen no files that would lead me to suggest using anything other than Digital High-Res on the 1DsMkII, or on the higher-resolution 22MP cameras.

You can send me original raw files that show the problem at

bruce@pixelgenius.com

but until I actually see the problem, there really isn't anything else I can tell you.

[Jon Roemer]

Bruce,

Hope you are doing well and having a great '05. We had exchanged some e-mail and samples back in December on the 1DsM2/Photokit Sharpener interaction.

I still get results when I try to use PKS with my 1DsM2 that are not very usable. Areas of even tone, like blue skies or out of focus backgrounds in portraits, get too crunchy. In general I find that a simple USM of 300, 0.3-0.4, 0-2 works better. If I try to make PKS work then I have to reduce the opacity of the layer set to ~40% at which point it is not very effective.

It's definitely not working as well as PKS worked on my D1x files or my 1Ds files (after the bug fix).

Here's a screen grab sample of an architecture shot with lots of blue sky:
http://www.jonroemer.com/ftp/1DsM2_sample.pdf

Thanks,
Jon

[Bruce Fraser]

Jon,

I need to see the raw file, and I need to know which raw converter you're using. You can contact me offline at bruce@pixelgenius.com.

[Jon Roemer]

Thanks Bruce.

It was processed in ACR. I'll upload the raw file and send you a link. I don't know that it's any different, per se, from the samples I provided last December.

[Jon Roemer]

Bruce,

Thanks for all your help and personal attention to this offline.

Jon

[stevekale]

I'm afraid I too am having trouble with Sharpener and my 1Ds MKII. I also had similar problems when trying to use it for sharpening images from a 6mp PhaseOne back. I love this product with film but it seems to fail with high-res digital. If I can help in anyway let me know.

[Bruce Fraser]

What's the nature of the failure, and which raw converter are you using?

[stevekale]

I use either Capture One Pro 3.6 (I am about to try 3.7) or ACR 2.4. I am probably not going to describe the issues in the proper terminology but here goes. The thing I see most often is a lot of introduced "noise" - largely in the light contour layer. This can wreak havoc with skin. (This was particularly my experience with the PhaseOne.) Also the 1Ds MKII images tend to need a lot more sharpening than with film and I often find myself needing to go to super fine to tighten up the detail. Hope this helps.

[Bruce Fraser]

Superfine is generally inimical to skin tones and is not a good way to tighten up detail on portraits. The 1DsMkII has a pretty aggressive antialiasing filter and tends to need more sharpening than other cameras in its class, but the raw converter also makes a big difference.

At your convenience, contact me at bruce@pixelgenius.com. I'd like you to send me (or make available for me to download)

A raw that exhibits the problem.
An unsharpened crop of the raw processed through C1
the sidecar .xmp for the raw processed through ACR

I should be able to make you happy.

[stevekale]

OK let me try to find a good example(s). I do not use superfine on portraits but have found it needed on almost all else. (I haven't done portraits for a while and the effects I was commenting on were from a PhaseOne back with C1 DB.)

One other question first: I have not been using any sharpening in the RAW converter. I have, however, heard debate that one should do sharpening at this Bayer level for good RAW conversion results. Do you have a view on this?

In general I am surprised, from discussions such as those on Rob Galbraith's 1Ds/1Ds MKII forum of the amount of people doing (relatively simple) Unsharp Mask sharpening with this camera - and lot's of it.

Oh one other thing - I suspect that I will move to CS2 and try the new ACR3. Should we wait until I can send you something through this converter?

Thanks for the help

Steve

[stevekale]

How do I get the "sidecar .xmp for the raw processed through ACR"?

[Bruce Fraser]

Steve,

I'm in no bigger hurry than you are, so whenever works for you is fine?I just want to make you happy with our software!

All raw converters do some combination of smoothing, sharpening, and noise reduction in the demosaicing process?it's one of the main factors that makes raw converters act differently. Our preference in the Sharpener workflow is that you don't apply any additional sharpening beyond what the raw converter does by default, because that sharpening is always global wrt both the image area and the tonal range.

Rob Galbraith's is good for entertainment, but I find that passion is usually in inverse proportion to knowledge over there. The 1Ds/1DsMkII have more aggressive antialiasing filters than most other cameras in that class, and hence both need and can take more aggressive sharpening, but we feel there are better ways to do that than simply clobbering the image with USM!

If, after trying ACR 3, you think it's what you'll be using, I'd rather get images through it. But mainly, I want to make Sharpener work with whichever raw converters you plan to use?the difference between the converters can be as great or greater than the difference between the cameras.

To get the sidecar file, either:

go to Camera Raw Preferences, and choose Save Settings in: "sidecar .xmp files." A sidecar xmp containing your raw settings is created automatically when you finish editing in ACR.

or

In camera raw 3, save settings in the Camera Raw Database, and choose Export Settings to create the sidecar.

If you need more help, contact me offlist at bruce@pixelgenius.com

[wjkotze]

I have done a search but could not find a thread where the 1Ds MkII sharpening issues have been resolved. I have recently bought a 1Ds MkII and during the processing of test files I also noticed a pretty severe salt and pepper effect using the high resolution capture sharpener. My system is Windows XP and CS2. Processing is with sharpening disabled. Raw processing through C1 or ACR 3.1 makes no difference.